YouTuber for Lawyers with Angela Vorpahl - Episode 27

In Episode 27 of the Legal Genie Podcast, your host, Lara Quie, is in conversation with Angela Vorpahl.

Angela is an American intellectual property and human rights attorney turned YouTube channel host and creator of the “Law School Master Plan Strategy” course designed to help law students master their time, compete for top grades and position themselves for their dream job out of law school.

She was raised in Texas, where she also went to university, and later passed the bar.

After interning as a judicial clerk, she decided to sit the New York bar exam and moved to New York, where she became an associate practising IP law. 

She was there for 5 years before it struck her that she didn't have a passion for IP law, and that working on human rights cases might be a more fulfilling use of her legal training. 

Quite by chance, she discovered that YouTube did not only offer entertainment, but also educational content.

She soon started to create videos on all the things she wishes she had known before starting as a junior lawyer.

Her lawyer nature made it hard for her to press upload to her channel, but after a year, she finally went live with her channel. 

She noticed that the most pupular videos and questions related to people thinking of doing law and going to law school rather than lawyers already in practice.

This realisation made her create her  “Law School Master Plan Strategy” course.

Angela shares her journey from Texas to Times Square, to full-time YouTuber. 

I hope that you will enjoy the episode.

You can follow and connect with Angela Vorpahl on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angelavorpahl/

You can find out more about Angela on her website: https://www.angelavorpahl.com/
Also:

·         If you liked this episode, please rate the show, and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts to help the Legal Genie reach a wider audience.

·         Look out for the next episode coming soon.

You can connect with Lara Quie as follows:

·         On LinkedIn here

·         Website: https://www.laraqassociates.com

·          If you have a question, you can e-mail Lara at Lara@LaraQAssociates.com

Lara Q Associates
A boutique business and executive coaching consultancy

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Transcript

The Legal Genie Podcast Episode 27 with Angela Vorpahl

[00:00:00] Lara Quie: Hello, and thank you for joining me, Lara Quie, for the Legal Genie Podcast. 

[00:00:36] Following my career as a corporate lawyer at Dentons and DLA Piper, I reinvented myself as an entrepreneur. And then as Asia Pacific Head of Business Development at Duane Morris. 

[00:00:48] After a life event introduced me to the world of executive coaching, I set up my own consultancy, where I coach lawyers, leaders, and founders on how to design their best [00:01:00] life. 

[00:01:00] I coach on building one's book of business, personal branding, LinkedIn skills, growing self-confidence and how to get to the next level. 

[00:01:10] If you are looking for someone with whom to share your challenges and who can help you move forward, if you are stuck, then reach out to me through my website @laraqassociates.com. 

[00:01:22] This podcast is intended to give you an insight into the lives and careers of movers and shakers in the legal industry. 

[00:01:29] I ask my guests to share their best advice with you that I hope you will find helpful in your legal journey. 

[00:01:36] Please rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts to help us reach more people who may find it helpful. 

[00:01:43] I hope that you will enjoy the conversation. 

Hello, and welcome to Episode 27 of the Legal Genie Podcast with me, your host, Lara Quie. Today I'm excited to have for the very first time on the Legal Genie Podcast, a YouTuber! I'm feeling very modern. Angela Vorpahl is an American intellectual property and human rights attorney turned YouTube channel host and creator of the “Law School Master Plan Strategy” course designed to help law students master their time, compete for top grades and position themselves for their dream job out of law school.

[00:02:26] So welcome to the show, Angela, 

[00:02:28] Angela Vorpahl: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. 

[00:02:31] Lara Quie: I always like to start at the very beginning. So, give us a little overview of your family background and where you grew up. 

[00:02:38] Angela Vorpahl: Sure. So, I'm originally from Texas and I come from a big family who lives all over the state of Texas.

[00:02:45] So we moved around quite a bit. But basically, hit all of the major cities. So, Houston, Dallas, and Austin for anyone who's from that area. 

[00:02:55] Lara Quie: I see. Everything is big in Texas, right? This is what I learned when I went on a Contiki tour of America and we landed in Texas and there were huge steaks and huge rocking chairs outside steak houses, and I went to rodeos and it was just a fantastic kind of very outdoorsy lifestyle there.

[00:03:20] Angela Vorpahl: Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. We're very, proud of the culture and the food and sort of the vibe. So, it was a really great place to grow up. 

[00:03:28] Lara Quie: Yes. So, tell me about your first degree and what you studied. 

[00:03:32] Angela Vorpahl: Sure. So, I went to St. Edward's University in Austin, Texas, and I actually went there on a volleyball scholarship.

[00:03:40] I was recruited to play volleyball, which is how I found that university. And I majored in political science and Spanish. And I started out not really knowing what I wanted to focus on, and I knew that the earlier you picked a major the better, just because you could get more credit hours towards that degree.

[00:03:59] And so, I remember randomly picking political science because right around that time was the big Bush / Gore Presidential election with the huge recount. And so that was really interesting to me. And so, I thought I'd give political science a go. And what I found was about one semester in, I had met with an academic counsellor / career counsellor, or something to start picking classes for the following semester.

[00:04:25] And she mentioned that the Texas State Legislature was in session. And would I be interested in trying for an internship? And at the time I had zero concept of what a legislature was much less a state one versus the federal one. And I don't even know that I was aware. I should have been aware of that the state Capital is Austin, but that the sessions were being held of course in the city of Austin. And so, the crazy thing about the Texas State Legislature is they only meet every other year. And so, it just so happened when I was a freshmen that they were going to be in session.

[00:04:57] And so I said, why not? And I applied to every Representative and Senator who had internship postings, and I wound up getting an internship and it was just the most thrilling experience of my life, up to that point. It was so intense, and everybody was so passionate about their issues. And because that session was only 180 days, it was very frenzied, which I loved.

[00:05:23] And I remember at the end of that year, going back to her and talking through whether to potentially change my major to international business, not so much for the business part, but more for the international part, more for the language part, honestly. And she said you can, but you'll lose all of the credits that you just took for the last year. And so that solidified political science for me. And I actually wound-up interning in the Texas Legislature every single spring semester for the rest of college, which was what I was able to do because the volleyball season was in the fall.

[00:05:55] So, I would play volleyball in the fall and then I would intern in the spring. And that was just so much fun and was my introduction to lawyers actually. 

[00:06:04] Lara Quie: So that introduction was what led you to then take a law degree? 

[00:06:09] Angela Vorpahl: Yeah, absolutely. So unbeknownst to me, most of the, I would say this is true for any state or even at the federal level, a lot of the Representatives and Senators are lawyers. A lot of their team are also lawyers. So, the legislative directors, the chiefs of staff, people in the different government agencies. And so that was my first time I'd ever been around lawyers. And it was interesting to see that you could do something policy related that wasn't in the stereotypical law firm, like you see, of course, in movies and TV shows.

[00:06:42] And so that's what got me interested in it because I thought policy was just so fascinating and politics was just such a rush. And then seeing how a lot of people had chosen to make law school that step in between is what started me thinking about law school for the first time. 

[00:07:00] Lara Quie: And what about anybody in your family? Did you have any legal exposure at that point in time? 

[00:07:06] Angela Vorpahl: No, zero. I had never spoken to a lawyer or met a lawyer or anything. And I never seriously considered it until I guess my sophomore year of college when I had my second year of interning.

[00:07:19] And I started asking around about what the process is like and what the steps are. And oh, if you're going to take the LSAT, you have to start studying in January and this whole thing once you started backing up the timeline. If you were interested in going straight through, it actually starts quite early.

[00:07:35] And so, I remember it was the summer before my junior year, I guess it was, and I'd gone on a non-profit trip to Nicaragua for about six weeks. And I just remember spending that time thinking, is this really what I want to do? Do I want to try for it? What if I don't wind up liking it?

[00:07:55] Would it be worth the risk to try? And, I came out of that experience thinking, yeah, I think I would like to go for this. I didn't have a lot of backing up that decision, except for the fact that I had met quite a few people in policy that had a law degree, I really enjoyed the government side.

[00:08:13] I knew I was strong in writing at the very least. I liked, I wouldn't even say public speaking because I was very shy in front of a crowd, but I, at least in a small audience, I didn't mind speaking my mind. So, I was like those are things that people say that lawyers do or skillsets that they have.

[00:08:31] So I'm gonna, I'm gonna roll the dice and guess that I'm gonna like this. 

[00:08:36] Lara Quie: And so, when you started your degree, did you find that you did enjoy the academic side of law? 

[00:08:43] Angela Vorpahl: Yeah, I think like a lot of us, I had a love / hate relationship with it. So, I really enjoyed law school. I thought the classes were incredibly interesting and the pressure of performing in class was just ridiculously unnecessary, but also thrilling at the same time.

[00:08:57] And then, also just the insane pressure and stress of performing on final exams was just really nuts. But yeah, the classes themselves I enjoyed and the experience of law school I enjoyed, and I went straight through and I was very accustomed to being a full-time student that was essentially my whole life up until that point.

[00:09:21] And so, I never had this difficulty of being in the working world full-time and then trying to come back. It was just very second nature to me, and I knew how to do school and I knew how to do it well. And so that part was really fun. And also, the aspect of any school at any level is there's just very specific check points to hit.

[00:09:41] And there are very clear delineations of success. And so being a Type A personality, I really thrived in that environment.

[00:09:51] Lara Quie: So, when you left law school, what was your first role and what were your aspirations at that point in time? 

[00:09:59] Angela Vorpahl: Yeah, so I had no idea what to expect heading into law school. I didn't talk to anybody about it. I didn't do any research about it, nothing. And so, when I started, all I knew was that it was some version of school.

[00:10:13] And so that meant studying and that meant taking exams. I was on board to do that part. And then as you're in law school you start hearing different aspects of what a legal career is like. And people will start throwing around firm names. And they'll start talking about processes like OCI or On Campus Interviewing, and then you'll hear sort of buzz words like “judicial clerkships”.

[00:10:34] And so just piece by piece, I started to learn these things just by word of mouth, honestly. And what became clear to me was that at least in the U.S., there's a very set path for what doing really well looks like and it means getting really high grades and it means getting a judicial clerkship out of school.

[00:10:56] And then it means going to a big law firm. And that's what quote, unquote "success” looks like. And again, coming from that "check all the boxes, do all the things" quote unquote, I was like, great. That's what I'll do. And I'll work really hard, and I will shoot to do all of those things that are on the list.

[00:11:12] And that's how I did law school. I did it very by the book and it wound up working out really well. I enjoyed it a lot, but I also never for a second considered any alternatives. It was just, that's what people tell you to do. And so, I was in a position to do it. So that's what I did. 

[00:11:32] Lara Quie: I know what you mean. And I think it's very interesting that you say this track was what success looked like because within law, and I don't think it really matters which country you're in actually, there's that whole definition of success in terms of BigLaw, right? The certain international brands that are the epitome of what every law student feels is the ultimate.

[00:12:00] So, to make partner in one of those firms is the goal. And so even like straight out of law school, you're thinking about, okay, this is where I'm going. So, it's pretty interesting that you also mentioned getting a judicial clerkship. So, I know that's your first step that you took. So, tell me about what that involves and why you would do such a thing?

[00:12:23] Angela Vorpahl: Yeah. So, a judicial clerkship in the U.S. basically means you go to work for a judge in his or her chambers and you help the judge research and write judicial opinions basically. And so, in the U.S., it's considered very prestigious, especially if you are able to clerk for a federal judge. And so that was what was burned in my mind and sort of the language that was communicated to me. The best way to position yourself for judicial clerkship is to get a judicial internship. Usually when you're in the second year of law school. 

[00:12:56] Because that process actually begins the summer after your second year and you apply, and then if you're lucky you get an interview or several interviews, and then you get an offer. You accept and the clerkship begins, right when you graduate. And so, I was clerking for a federal district judge in Dallas, Texas. And it is just a dream job. It is just such an incredible job, especially for a brand-new baby lawyer, right out of law school. They gave you a crazy amount of responsibility, which no brand-new lawyer should have, but it just, it really accelerates the learning process.

[00:13:35] It just puts it on turbo speed because you're sitting in these oral arguments and you're sitting in these trials, and you're being asked to research and have an opinion about how these different disputes should come out and you're writing a ton and you're researching a ton. And it's so fantastic.

[00:13:53] And usually in the U.S. at least, they're only a year long, sometimes judges will have two-year clerkships, but it's generally a year. And because they're so highly valued, even if you have an offer from a law firm, they will gladly wait for you to join. So, they'll defer your offer so that you can clerk and then come work for them after you're finished.

[00:14:16] Lara Quie: It sounds like it's a really great way of seeing real life law in action, because I think the thing about law school is that everything is very far removed, very theoretical. You're learning the rule of law, et cetera, but then you're there in the court seeing it all in action. What sort of law were you involved in during the clerkship?

[00:14:39] Angela Vorpahl: Yeah. So, at the federal district level, we don't have separate civil and criminal courts. So, a federal judge will hear both and for the criminal cases we were able to sit in and participate in both, but the civil cases have way more motions being filed. And so, 99% of the work is going to be it on the civil side, just because in criminal cases, there just aren't a ton of substantive motions being filed.

[00:15:07] There's a lot of requests for continuance and things like that are more administerial, but in the civil cases are really where you get these substantive arguments about different case law and disputes and how things should come out. And so, we were able to watch criminal trials, but the research and writing was almost all civil.

[00:15:25] Lara Quie: So, you then got yourself to New York. Tell me about what happened then. 

[00:15:32] Angela Vorpahl: Yeah. So, it was really wild because coming from a regional law school in Texas, and I would say a regional law school anywhere in the U.S. generally speaking, you are the most competitive for jobs in that geographic region. That sphere is very small.

[00:15:49] And that's because if you go to law school in a particular city, the professors are going to know more lawyers and have more context in that city. You're going to have adjunct professors in clinics and internships all happening in that community. And so, it's just easier for you to meet people.

[00:16:07] It's easier for the different law firms and lawyers to get to know you in that city. And so, it's very interesting because even though we're a really transient society, there is this very sort of traditional view in law firms that they want to know that you're going to stay. Even though attorney turnover, associate turnover rate is like crazy high.

[00:16:28] It's something like 80% within the first five years of practice. And I think it's 50% in the first three years, the turnover is very high. And yet when you interview, they want to hear that you're going to be there forever. And so, the way that you promise that or show them that is, oh, look, I went to law school in this city.

[00:16:45] Therefore, I have a tie here, therefore I'm going to stay. And so, law firms are very wary of people going to law school in one city, and then trying to get a job in another city, unless you have some really substantive connection that you can speak to. And so that was what was communicated to us. 

[00:17:01] Now, luckily, Dallas has a really strong legal market, so there are a ton of law firms there. It's a really great place to practice. And the law firm that I interned for during a summer, had a New York office. And at the time I remember that I was coming out of the clerkship and the original conversation was that I was going to start in the Dallas office.

[00:17:23] But during the clerkship, I had my first interaction with people from Ivy league schools. I had never, ever before encountered people from Ivy league schools. It blew my mind. They were like these magical creatures that I'd only ever heard of. And when you get to the federal judicial clerkship world, most people are from T14 law schools because these positions are just so competitive and there's so few of them that, a lot of judges make cuts based on name recognition of law schools and GPA that too many applications to go through them one by one.

[00:17:56] And so that's the situation. So, I would say 95% of the people were from top law schools. And so they were, after the clerkship, they were going to places like Chicago and New York and DC and San Francisco. And I just remember thinking I could try, there's no downside to asking and I was single at the time and there was nothing really keeping me in Dallas other than the job. And so, I remember asking and the answer was yes, like a hesitant yes. But the reason I think they wound up saying yes was because the New York office was relatively new and there were no junior associates in it.

[00:18:37] So, I think the youngest associate there was like a fourth-year associate. And so, they needed young help and I was coming out as a second year and so it wound up working. And I remember my co-clerk and I, there were two of us, both from SMU law, and she also had dreams of moving to New York which, she later did by the way, and so we were both sitting at lunch and, talking back and forth. Are we gonna try this? Are we going to do this? Well, if we're going to do that, we have to take the New York bar. Okay. The last day to register I think, was in April to take it in July or something.

[00:19:08] And so we were really scared to ask for time off, to take the bar because in a judicial clerkship it's one year. So, the expectation is you don't take any time off, cause it's such a short stint. And so, on the last day of registration, we both went into the judge's chambers and asked if we could have, I think it was two days off to fly up to New York and take the bar.

[00:19:26] And he said, yes. And so, we're like we have a yes! So, we got to go for it. So that's how it happened. And yeah, we later both wound up in New York because of it. 

[00:19:35] Lara Quie: How much study was involved to take the New York bar? 

[00:19:39] Angela Vorpahl: Yeah. So generally speaking, when you take your first bar exam, the recommendation is to study for about two and a half months.

[00:19:46] So, the semester you graduate from law school in your final year in May, and then you sit for whatever bar you're taking in July. So, it's about two and a half months. And most people studied that entire time because there's just so much law to memorize, essentially, even the bare bones of all these different areas of law, it's just a ton.

[00:20:06] And so, that's usually what they recommend. And that's what I did for the first bar I took, which was the Texas bar. And then, following the year of the clerkship, when we were going to study for the New York bar, we were guessing because at the time there was no uniform bar exam.

[00:20:22] And so yes, the two states bar exams were different, but also the substantive law is not insanely different. The state-specific differences are, but we try to guesstimate how much time we would really need. Cause we just took a bar less than a year ago. Do we really need to study for two and a half months?

[00:20:40] And so, what we decided was we were going to study for six weeks and we were just going to do it somewhat intensely rather than slow roll it out over two and a half months. So, six weeks total. And then the final two weeks, we went really hard right before the exam. 

[00:20:56] Lara Quie: Wow. So it sounds very intense, but you obviously managed to pass.

[00:21:01] Angela Vorpahl: Oh, yeah, but not without drama. So, I remember sitting the New York bar and at the time, the Texas bar was three days and the New York bar was two. So that was a nice step up. And there's this break in between the essays so that the essay days, three essays in the morning, three essays in the afternoon with a break in between.

[00:21:20] And I just remember walking to my car and just crying, just I failed. I didn't know any of the answers to any of those questions. This whole plan is ruined, just balling. And yes, we both passed, but at the time I thought I was a goner. For sure. There was no way I was passing that exam.

[00:21:37] Lara Quie: So, it was a very pleasant surprise when you passed? 

[00:21:38] Yeah, definitely. 

[00:21:42] So, there you were, hot shot New York lawyer. What is it like being a New York lawyer? 

[00:21:50] Angela Vorpahl: It was so much fun and very, the first year was very much out of a storybook. Our offices were right off of Times Square, and I just remember every single day taking the train to 42nd and 7th and just walking to our office.

[00:22:09] And it was just beautiful. I absolutely loved it. I fell in love with the city and, I was naive enough to not see any of its flaws or any of the downsides and just soaking up every minute of that experience. And I met incredible people who had done to me the most adventurous things ever.

[00:22:26] And I also, coming from Texas, so this is so stereotypical, but the perception of southerners are that we're very warm and we're very friendly and we're very inviting. And the perception of northerners is that they're very cold and standoffish and aloof. And so, I fully expected heading into that office that everyone would just be a total jerk.

[00:22:47] And wouldn't have a word to say to me. And what I realized about New Yorkers is that they are standoffish in the Y. So, like when you're just walking around on the sidewalk or in the subway, nobody makes eye contact. Nobody says anything because there are too many people to interact with.

[00:23:04] If you were to interact with every single human that you come across, but when you get them in a normal human environment, like an office, for example, they were incredibly friendly. They were incredibly sweet. And I made really good friends there.

[00:23:18] Lara Quie: So, tell me about why you chose to specialize in intellectual property.

[00:23:23] Angela Vorpahl: So, I didn't. It chose me, I had no idea what IP law was when I started law school. I never heard of it before. It never occurred to me that was a thing that somebody could practice. And I had no scientific background, no particular interest in technology. I was probably the least well-suited person for that role.

[00:23:44] But when I interned for two different law firms, the summer after my two L year. And I remember that the IP practice group of this particular law firm was just blowing up and they were incredibly busy, and they had so many cases. And so, the different projects that I was working on were just so exciting and so energizing, and they had me doing some really cool things.

[00:24:10] Whereas the other practice group, I was a part of at the other firm, was just very mellow and slow and established and about a three to a four in terms of speed. Whereas the other place was like a 9.5 all the time. And I knew that kind of talking with other people who had worked at that firm, that it meant that you were going to work a lot, but I could also tell by the end of that summer that I wanted to work a lot.

[00:24:37] I wanted to learn a lot. I wanted to be at a job that was on fire. I wanted those things because again, like I was what, 25 or 26, I guess at that point coming out of law school, the only sort of focus that I had at that time was my career. And I was in New York city where everybody's focused on their career.

[00:24:58] So it was like, yeah, bring it on. Let's do this. And they needed help in the IP group. So those were most of the projects that I had worked on. So, I knew the partners, I knew the associates and I was all in, I was more than happy to start out doing that and just learning as I go.

[00:25:14] And I think one of the great things about the people I was working with. When you think in terms of an athlete where you can't, oh my gosh, what is the phrase? You can't teach someone how to jump, but you can coach them once they're up there or something like that, which was a terrible, this is a terrible analogy.

[00:25:33] But basically, if you have someone who's willing to work hard and learn, you can teach them the specifics of a practice group. Those are not unlearnable, it's just that, that that piece of, really wanting to be a part of the team is what they valued. And that's what I had. 

[00:25:48] Lara Quie: Yeah. So, it's a lot about the growth mindset and attitude. So, that willingness to learn, to put in the hours, the intelligence obviously needs to be there, but it's more about being able to coach someone into that practice area. 

[00:26:06] Angela Vorpahl: Yeah, for sure. 

[00:26:07] Lara Quie: So, you were there for five years. Obviously, rose to senior associate at some point, but what happened at that point?

[00:26:17] Angela Vorpahl: Yeah, so, a few things happened and one of them was, I was on a major trial that ended. And anytime you finish a big trial, or if you're a corporate associate, a big deal, there's this release of just energy and exhaustion. And, I remember thinking, oh my gosh, I just saw the entire process altogether. That was the first case I'd been on from the filing of the complaint to jury verdict. And I remember thinking now it all makes sense. I've finally seen every step of the process. I've finally seen why you ask these questions in interrogatories and why you scheduled depositions of these different people and how these things make it onto an exhibit list and how you direct in cross examination and all these different pieces.

[00:27:02] And at that moment, I realized that yes, I could spend a lifetime learning how to be a better litigator. It's absolutely a path that I could have taken. And and yet I, I felt a sense of kind of circular closure of I get it now, and I've seen it.

[00:27:20] And that felt really good. And for the first time, since I started this entire journey, I felt like I could pick my head up and look around and think the thought, what would I do if I could do anything? Because up till that point, I never had thought that thought or asked myself that question because I was so head down focused on the work and doing a good job in learning all the things and keeping up and being a great associate and all of the things.

[00:27:48] And so, that was my focus. And at that moment, I was like I asked myself the questions, “Do I like this? Do I want to keep doing this? Is there anything else I would like to try? What else could I do with a law degree?” What I realized was, I really liked the litigation process. I also realized I did not love IP.

[00:28:06] There was nothing about IP that in particular, that really excited me other than the litigation side, that it, that those cases tended to go to trial pretty often and pretty quickly. And I also, the other thing I realized was on our teams, different people would send around like news articles and blog posts and judicial opinions and other cases and just an off hours, just, hey, this is what's happening in the industry.

[00:28:32] Hey, did you guys see this lawsuit or such and such judge issued this opinion. And I just remember thinking, okay, I don't care. I don't care. And this isn't related to what I'm working on. So, I'm not going to read it. And it didn't occur to me until I think I got one of those emails and it finally dawned on me, oh, people are really interested in this and they're completely nerding out on this and they're doing this in their free time.

[00:28:59] And that's when it finally hit me. Oh, I want to find the thing that I completely nerd out on so hard that I have to go and email somebody about it. Like I'm just reading these things and, I have to tell somebody. And so those were like the two big pieces that kind of came together for me at that moment.

[00:29:15] This wasn't the first time I had thought this, but it came to the forefront of my mind when I thought about what would I do if I could do anything? It kept going back to the six week internship I had as a one L summer intern the summer after my first year of law school at a human rights organization where they did several different things.

[00:29:34] But I worked in the asylum and refugee department and that just felt wow, that's, I can't think of a better thing to do with a law degree than that work right there. And I remember thinking when I started at the firm, oh I'll do those cases pro bono and I'll do them on the side.

[00:29:52] And then, of course, fast forward five years and I didn't do a single one ever. The closest thing I ever got was signing up for a training and then never going. And I, and any time it crossed my mind something would come up with work and it just felt what is it? Unconditional, non-negotiable like I had to do the work thing. That took precedence.

[00:30:09] And so, I never dove into any of the pro bono work. And so, I realized if I'm actually going to do this, clearly I can't work at a private firm and do both because I've told myself this for five years. And so, at that point also the IP group was slowing down.

[00:30:24] And so, I was like this is a really good time to transition out. And so that's when I started taking on all these different pro bono cases with different human rights organizations and, it was an interesting time in my life, because I was also in this mindset of this voice in the back of my mind, if I could do anything, what would I do?

[00:30:43] I think it's this, I think it's this thing. Like I need to try and see and test on some of these cases. But one of the other things that came up for me around that time too, was I became enamoured with YouTube videos. And up until that time, I'd always used YouTube to watch comedy sketches and celebrity interviews and music videos, and like just short sort of entertainment things.

[00:31:05] And I remember very clearly, I don't know if anybody's a Casey Neistat fan, but he's one of the original YouTube bloggers. And I started watching his videos and the ones that I was most attracted to had to do with, so he blogs a lot about his life in New York and he's a filmmaker and he just has this really fabulous looking life.

[00:31:28] But there were also videos where he would just give advice. He would just talk about life, and he would just talk about obstacles and overcoming them and being the best version of yourself and going after your dreams. And I was just so inspired by them. I love, love, love those videos to this day. And that was the first time I realized, oh, YouTube can be used for educational content.

[00:31:47] Like it's not just, it doesn't have to just be for entertainment content. And so going down this path, there's a few books that I, and I'm going to blank on the names, but one of them talks about how everybody is creative. Everybody is an artist. If you're interested in finding out the way you can find it and everybody's way looks different, but oh, "The Artists Way", that's what it's called. 

[00:32:07] And a wonderful, book. And so, I realized up to that point, I thought of people as either artistic or not artistic, it was very binary. And then that book made me realize that no, everybody has creativity within them. And it just comes out and shows itself and manifests itself in different ways.

[00:32:25] And so, I remember this is all like processing and stewing and, bubbling together. And then I decided if I could do anything, I would talk about the legal industry in YouTube videos. And I know I'm totally rambling, but the other reason, that this came to mind I remember was because one of the things I thought I might want to do was be a professor.

[00:32:47] Being a professor, always sounded fun. It always sounded interesting. It sounded like a cool job, but you always heard professors complaining about having to grade exams and having to do research they didn't want to do. And having to, I don't know, oh, live in cities that they didn't want to live in to be able to move up the hierarchy of law schools and things like that.

[00:33:10] And so, I was like, what if I didn't have to do any of those things? And what if I just taught whatever I wanted to teach. And whoever wanted to learn would just watch the video. And if you didn't want to learn it, you just wouldn't watch the video. And it's just everybody's getting exactly what they want. And that, that, that thought just blew my mind.

[00:33:27] And I was like, yeah, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to make YouTube videos. And I'm just gonna, I'm just going to talk about things that are important to me and that I have strong feelings about.

[00:33:38] Lara Quie: Quite a journey. Wasn't it? What I hear in that is having really got under the bonnet of what intellectual property practice looked like. And as you said, it was almost like a jigsaw. And when that final piece fell into place and you saw the big picture, you suddenly went, oh, okay.

[00:33:59] This is what it's all about. And actually, it's not really what I thought it was, and it isn't actually for me. So, there's that dawning realization. But then in the background you had thought, okay, but there was a time when I thought the human rights elements and the things I experienced during my internships and things like that.

[00:34:21] These could be really interesting. And so, you pursued them and certainly on your LinkedIn, you definitely went for it. I can see that you did, I think after your IP time, at least six different ones and one, even in Argentina, which sounds very exciting. But let us get onto that whole dawning of your YouTube realization, the epiphany of YouTube.

[00:34:47] And in those days when it comes to law there aren't that many lawyers on YouTube. Lawyers tend to be terribly traditional. They don't like to step out of their comfort zone. Very risk averse, highly sceptical that YouTube could be anything other than frivolous. And so here you are though.

[00:35:09] Tell me about your actual YouTube journey. How did you learn the skills? Because there are lots of technical skills involved, certainly sound, the content, planning your content, video, editing, music, finding music that isn't copyrighted. All of these different elements. How did you learn all of those? 

[00:35:30] Angela Vorpahl: I will say that it was so incredibly difficult, and it was so messy. And so, I started, to answer your question, so in terms of the technical side, I don't even think I would've started a YouTube channel except that my partner is also a YouTuber.

[00:35:45] And so, he is incredibly knowledgeable about film and audio and lighting and editing and sound. And so, he taught me all of it and I gave up on YouTube. I don't know, maybe seven times a day for the first year. And just it, there were so many learning curves and I'm totally terrible at technology.

[00:36:07] And, inevitably you research something, and you write out the script and you film you make a two sentence take 15 times and you film the thing finally and you record it and you edit it. And, then the audio was broken, or the half of the video didn't record, or the lighting was terrible and you had to redo it.

[00:36:24] And so it was just like banging your head against a brick wall. It was, so it was so rough and that was just the technical side. And then the mental block side was even worse. And so, I was making these things I made, I think it was about, gosh, was it 10 or 12? I made videos for an entire year before I actually uploaded one, because of all of the things you just said, the risk aversion and, this fear of being seen.

[00:36:51] And at the time I was thinking I was still going to apply for sort of traditional roles in a traditional sort of legal organization. And so, I just figured if I publish these things, I'm going to be un-hireable. People are going to see this. They're going to think, “what in the world is she doing?”

[00:37:07] And, also not to mention any of the things I could be saying are wrong. This is my experience in my thoughts. And, as a lawyer, you never want to say anything that could potentially be used against you, or that could potentially be incorrect. And so just spouting out information, just felt like the antithesis of everything that we had learned and trained for up until that point.

[00:37:27] And yeah, it was terrifying. I remember the night that I pressed upload on my first YouTube video, and I was on Facebook and I had written out the caption and I had technically uploaded the video and I was waiting to push publish, and it took me something like six hours of just like walking back and forth from my computer and just thinking, I'm not going to do it.

[00:37:46] No, I'm not going to do it. Okay. You did the whole thing. You wrote the caption you, edited it. What were all those videos for, if you're not going to publish them? And then I pressed publish, but that was an entire sort of self-development journey, just to get to that point.

[00:37:59] And there were so many books I read so many podcasts, and so many conversations I had because my partner is very creative. I also have a sister who is an actress, and so she's in the creative world too. And it was just such a blessing to have those people in my life where they could identify with how scary it is to create something and to put something out there and, really resonate with those feelings.

[00:38:20] And then the book that actually got me to push publish is called,  “The Art of War". It's a very short book. And I don't know if anybody is a fan anybody follows "Charisma on Command", which is another huge YouTube channel. But he, in one of his videos, he said the same thing like that book made him press upload on his first YouTube video as well. And so, if anybody is trying to decide whether or not to get on social media or having a lot of pushback for it, I recommend that book just because it really, to break it down to the bare bones, it's basically saying that whatever's inside of you, that you're trying to communicate, you owe it to the world to get it out and it removes yourself from the process.

[00:39:00] So you're just the conduit through which this information is flowing. It has absolutely nothing to do with, and no commentary on you as a person or you as a professional, it's just your responsibility to get it out there.

[00:39:14] And so that, that really changed my entire perspective on it and helped me become very impenetrable when it came to uploading and creating these videos. And so now, I can do it without having nervous breakdowns every single time, but for a long time, for a year and a half after that, I would just freak out every time before I pressed upload, because I felt like my entire world was crashing down around me.

[00:39:37] So that was a nuts experience, both from a technical standpoint and also from like a mental, emotional standpoint, 

[00:39:45] Lara Quie: It sounds really quite a journey. It sounds quite painful when I imagine you pacing up and down for six hours before you pressed upload. Was that the lawyer in you? Was it the lawyer that was having so much trouble with that? I know that many lawyers struggle with social media. 

[00:40:05] Angela Vorpahl: Oh my gosh. Yes. 100%. It's just pounded into like risk aversion and not opening yourself up to any any possible, I would say criticism, but it's even more than that, incorrectness.

[00:40:19] Like the less you say the better, because then nobody can find an email or a deposition or a phone call or we're just it, especially if you're a litigator, like you've seen people do deep dives into like messages and conversations and things. And there's even memes out there that says, “write your emails as if one day there'll be read aloud in a deposition". And so, for you to intentionally put things out into the world is like the death knell to what a good lawyer would do, because you're so trained to protect yourself and protect your voice and only speak when you need to. And when you talk, make sure every single word is exactly how you want it to be.

[00:41:04] And there's only one way to interpret what you said. And so, to try to loosen that up and to talk openly was the hardest thing. And I still struggle with it today. I've listened to some of the podcast episodes of people that you've interviewed, and I'm just so jealous of the way that they can just be genuine.

[00:41:21] I still feel very put together. Like when I'm talking to anyone, I can tell my mind is filtering everything I'm saying at a hundred miles per hour to make sure I'm saying it exactly. And so, I look forward to the day where I stop caring at the level I'm caring so that I can actually speak a lot more genuinely than I do now.

[00:41:39] But yeah, it's tough to unlearn that. And it's also really valuable in a lot of ways. And so, when something has served you it's hard to turn your back on it when you're not 100% convinced that the other approach is better or safer or will give you whatever results it is you're looking for.

[00:41:59] And so, yeah I continue to aspire to be someone without a filter when I talk. 

[00:42:05] Lara Quie: That's interesting because the good thing about pre-recorded YouTube is that you can edit out after you've watched it and decided actually, I don't want to say that on that video. Delete. Delete. 

[00:42:18] Angela Vorpahl: Oh yeah. And that's happened. Yeah.

[00:42:20] That's happened when I've been scared, and it feels like I'm reaching too far. I just, I won't include it. And so, I've done it now for about three years. And so now I can sense myself very slowly lightening up and softening up and being more genuine in saying what I think. But it's, it is a journey and a path, and I am still not there and it's probably gonna be years before I am.

[00:42:43] Lara Quie: So, when it comes to your channel and your course, tell me about the kind of students and kind of people who you've targeted and who find most value in it. 

[00:42:55] Angela Vorpahl: Yeah. So, when I started the YouTube channel, the things that I felt most strongly about were all of the frustrations of being a young associate at a law firm.

[00:43:05] And it was specifically all of the things that people don't tell you and don't train you on and don't teach you, and then that eternal friction of you thinking you're just a total moron and you're messing everything up and you're going to get fired at any second.

[00:43:20] And just a total failure. And then after you make mistakes and stumble through it, and you learn on your feet and two, three years pass, and you look back and realize there was so little support there and there were all these unspoken rules.

[00:43:36] And, in terms of etiquette and different ways of operating that nobody told you. And so, you're walking into a lion's den is a terrible way to say it, but you're walking into a really tough situation that nobody prepares you for. And so, it was just all of these frustrations with that process from the lens of a junior associate who all they want to do, and that was me, all I wanted to do was just be an amazing lawyer and work hard and learn and do everything right. And I just got hit over the head over and over with really, I guess, hard uncomfortable experiences because I just didn't know what I didn't know. And so that's what the YouTube channel was originally intended to be.

[00:44:16] That's how it started out and I was training people on okay, here's what you need to know about working in a law firm. Here are the things that they're not going to tell you. Here are the different skill sets you're going to need. And all the way to like substantive stuff of like depositions and trial prep and strategy and things like that.

[00:44:31] And because it was all the things that I wish I would've known starting out. So, I made videos like that for a while. And then every once in a while, I would make a video, those kinds of higher level, like what is a lawyer? And how much money do lawyers make? And what do you do as a lawyer? And like these very basic things.

[00:44:47] What is law school? And I realized over time that I was getting so much more engagement with those more basic videos, people asking questions and people leaving really generous comments and things like that. And I realized, oh, the people who are a actively finding me are not new lawyers and they're not even in law school, it's pre-law school, like people interested in possibly becoming a lawyer.

[00:45:13] And so, once I finally figured that out, I started to make a lot more videos that were tailored to that community, where it was like, here's the basics of what you need to know about law school. Here's the basics of what you need to know about being a lawyer. And it was what I realized was because the YouTube channel was always meant to be just a passion project on the side.

[00:45:33] And at the end of 2019 is when it finally hit me over the head, how much I was enjoying this and how much I loved answering questions and comments. And I would just write seven paragraphs of, here's everything I know about what you just asked. And I loved it, and I absolutely loved it. And so that's when it finally occurred to me that I was full time.

[00:45:58] Lara Quie: So, with your channel as it is now, how do you increase your audience numbers? How are you getting out there and how are you monetizing it? 

[00:46:08] Angela Vorpahl: Yeah. So, YouTubers in general, and I would say this is more for educational content, but you do a mix. The types of videos that your audience wants to see. So, for me, anything that's super high level, anything that has to do with BigLaw anything that has to do with law school are topics that my audience really likes to see. And then you need to balance that with what topics are interesting to you.

[00:46:30] If there are questions that I've always wanted to know. So, for example, I have a video coming out tomorrow about non-traditional law students, and I went straight through, so I didn't have a non-traditional law student experience, but I was getting a ton of questions from people who were in their late twenties and thirties and forties asking if they should go back to law school. What is that like?

[00:46:49] What are the job opportunities? And so, I remember thinking I don't know the answer, but I can sure find somebody who does. And so, I went and I interviewed a bunch of attorneys and compiled the video with frequently asked questions and best practices and best advice. And so, there's always that balance of yeah, what my audience wants to see, and then also what I just want to get out in the world and things that I feel strongly about, and I need to somehow communicate.

[00:47:15] And so, that's usually what the balance looks like. And then I'll also keep in mind questions that people have asked or where we are in the cycle of law school and starting at a law firm and the most common pain points that people have at different parts of the year.

[00:47:32] And as far as monetization. So YouTube changes its rules very frequently. But at the moment, I believe it's the same as when I started, which is in order to monetize your YouTube video, you need 1000 subscribers and 4,000 hours of watch time. Once you hit those two metrics, you are then allowed to monetize any video going forward.

[00:47:52] And so I hit that. Gosh, I think it took me a little over a year if I'm [00:48:00] remembering correctly. And so from there on out, you're on the backend, you can choose the type of ads and how frequently and things like that. But for me, because the YouTube channel is relatively small in terms of, YouTube channels in general, that it's not a big monetization factor in my business.

[00:48:18] It's much more about getting the message out there and being seen as an expert in my field. And the hope is to have law students and people in general, who are just interested in a legal career build that know like trust factor because at the end of the day, if they don't trust me or if they don't think that I can help them, then it does no good to try to have a business serving this community.

[00:48:44] And so I use my YouTube videos to kind of p ay it forward and make sure I'm creating a lot of valuable content upfront. And then those who are interested in continuing down the path to actually prepare for law school and be successful in law school. Find me that way.[00:49:00] 

[00:49:00] Lara Quie: So your actual course is an online course on a different platform and not through YouTube.

[00:49:06] Angela Vorpahl: Correct, yes. So my course, "Law School Master Plan" is an online course and group coaching program. And so basically the three phases are preparation for law school. So what to do before law school begins to make sure you can optimize these next three years once you're in it. So that first semester I actually walk with students step-by-step through the first semester. So August to January to make sure everybody's understanding the study steps, implementing correctly, answering any questions that come up, delving into final exam strategy. And then the third phase is getting that first job. And so for most of my students, they're one L so their first year law students.

[00:49:47] And so that first job will be their summer job, but some of them are two L's and three Ls. And so the job they're looking to get is actually their first full-time job out of law school. And so those are the three major phases, because those are the ones that law [00:50:00] students and pre law students struggle the most with.

[00:50:02] Lara Quie: And so what are the most challenging things that law students are facing and what sort of advice would you give to any lawyers listening at the moment? 

[00:50:13] Angela Vorpahl: So I think that's such an interesting question because the thought came to me immediately. It's so bizarre that in U.S. law schools, the content has been taught the exact same way for over a hundred years.

[00:50:26] So the same cases, the same format, the same types of exams, everything is, almost exactly the same 99.9% of the time in 99.9% of the law schools across the country. And yet there is so much confusion and uncertainty about how to actually do well in law school. And that was the same when I started that's the same 10 years out now when I'm coaching law students.

[00:50:53] And it's just the most bizarre. And ironic situation. And that there's [00:51:00] so much information out there about how to study in law school. And yet it is still very confusing. And I think the reason is because most of the information out there is talked about it at a very high level. So you'll hear buzzwords, like case briefs and outlines and issue spotters and things like that.

[00:51:16] And so at a high level, a lot of us have heard those words, but we don't actually know what to do with them. So we don't actually know the best way to create a case brief or what an outline really is or what does studying for final exams mean? And so, I think that the best favour you can do yourself is recognize that just because someone has told you the basics doesn't mean you should expect yourself to know how to execute, because I remember hearing words like supplements and practice exams and office hours.

[00:51:49] And, when you walk into law school, you were so inundated with the workload that even if those are things you're supposed to be doing, there is absolutely no time to implement them. If you don't have [00:52:00] a strategy going in. And I didn't. And so they just get pushed to the side because you're so desperately just trying to survive the day-to-day. 

[00:52:08] And so I think that's the hardest thing, I guess, the not knowing the specifics and the step-by-step of how to do well. And I think the partner to that is that most of us who go on to law school, generally speaking did really well in undergrad, did really well at university or college.

[00:52:25] And so we're very used to getting good grades. We're very used to understanding things right away. We're good at school, which is why we've decided to continue on. And so a lot of what happens in a lot of the students that I work with are in that same boat. And I was the same when I started law school of, "oh, I hear it's hard, but how hard could it possibly be?"

[00:52:45] I've always gotten straight A's and then you walk in and you're just crushed by the workload, by the content, by the structure of exams, the structure of grading. And it's just an entirely different world and it takes [00:53:00] most people. Burning a semester or two and just bombing before they start to even get a footing with how they're supposed to study and how to do well.

[00:53:11] And so my mission is to prevent that from happening and give law students what they need before they start. So they don't have to walk into a $250,000 investment and have absolutely no idea how to actually get the most of it.

[00:53:26] Lara Quie: Certainly law school costs a lot of money in the States. You just mentioned $250,000. Yeah. So did you spend that kind of money as well? And are you still paying off that loan? 

[00:53:40] Angela Vorpahl: So I'm not, I was super fortunate to get a full scholarship to law school. So I, remember I borrowed some spending money from my parents and that first job I got as a judicial clerk I remember I was able to pay them off by Christmas. So I was super, super lucky. This is like a whole [00:54:00] different conversation about how you can actually apply for and get these different scholarships. Because you can create financial freedom for yourself, then you can take any job you want. You can leave any toxic job at any time. And what is so tough in the cycle that continues for most people in the U.S. is that you have to take out all of these loans to go to law school. You don't really know how to maximize your time there. So, sometimes maybe you get, okay, grades, maybe you get a job, maybe you don't. And then you get stuck in something that you're not particularly fond of, but you have student loan debt to pay.

[00:54:36] And so that's this cycle. There's a lot of other aspects to it too, but what the demands and requirements of the job, but that's what tends to perpetuate this unhappiness and this stuckness because you, yeah, you have a lot of money to pay off. And a lot of the times you need to take jobs that you're not really in love with in order to make that happen.

[00:54:54] And so I think that the educational part needs to come so [00:55:00] much earlier. And what I do is part of it. So understanding how the law school system works and how to get the most out of those three years to set yourself up to be successful. But even before that, there's a whole nother sphere of coaches coaching around just the financial piece.

[00:55:16] So understanding what that money means and how that debt plan plays out and how you get scholarship money and how the LSAT plays into that and admissions. And so there's all of these different sort of cottage industries trying to help pre-law students and law students really dig into each and every one of these pieces so that they can hopefully graduate and be really excited and fulfilled lawyers and not have to start in an industry where they already feel defeated.

[00:55:49] Lara Quie: That overwhelming barrier that level of debt is something that as a Brit from the UK that's not something that we understand very well because [00:56:00] usually for most people you would go to university. And then you would, at the end of your course, you'd get a training contract and they would pay for your law school.

[00:56:12] So in my case, I had two years of law school paid for by my firm. So my final year at university, I already knew that was fully sponsored and that I had a job at the end of those two years. So I really enjoyed college. I enjoyed the College of Law doing that study and then going straight into the job and then two years, and then you qualify, but all of that is fully paid.

[00:56:38] So I had an allowance during law school as well, which was very generous. So I enjoyed that. And and then yeah, knowing that you have a job as well is a big deal. Even though in the UK and certainly here in Singapore, we don't have debt like that, but people still feel pressure to remain within a [00:57:00] job that they're not happy in.

[00:57:01] And certainly law is often a very brutal harsh place with long hours, lots of stress targets. And of course, with technology these days, that always on feeling and now the work from home. So what issues have come up for you in this new COVID reality? Are you seeing new questions come on your YouTube channel because of this environment?

[00:57:29] Angela Vorpahl: That is a good question. So for the law students side of things for the last year and a half, most students have been in the quote unquote "Zoom school of law" because nobody was allowed on campus for a long time. And it was really tough on students because they were just in their apartments or maybe a room back in their childhood home.

[00:57:51] And they didn't get the experience of comradery with their classmates and really feeling connected to their professors and, speaking of the money piece, [00:58:00] spending tens of thousands of dollars just to be on Zoom all day which was really deflating in terms of energy and an expectation.

[00:58:08] And so everything I heard from students was that it was a very rough time. And also the law school faculty were trying to figure it out and, how they were going to do exams differently. And then if you go a cycle back, people were taking the LSATonline for the first time.

[00:58:25] And so it was really rough and it was very secluding and also a lot of students struggled with staying motivated and staying alert in class. and I think it was, yeah, it was not ideal. I don't think anyone was really a fan of it, but now most of my students, not all, but most of them are in person back at their law school.

[00:58:45] And so I did do a video about the different rules that changed because of COVID. So it was things like oh, the bar exams were going nuts because bar exams had never been remote before. And so all the states were freaking out and they were pushing [00:59:00] them back and, half doing them remote.

[00:59:02] And so people couldn't get licensed and so they couldn't start their jobs. And there were all these exceptions that different states were making. So that was a mess. And so basically what I talked about, that timeline of, starting in May and then studying two and a half months til June people would study and then it would get postponed and then they would study again and then it would get postponed.

[00:59:17] And so they were just in this stop and start and wait and see really, stressful environment. And I did a two hour live when, all of that was happening, but also. All of the rules and restrictions were changing constantly. And so it, it totally depended on the state you were in, and the law school, you were going to. People would go and rent apartments just to be told that the campus was closed at the last minute.

[00:59:38] And so they wasted all this money when they could've just been at home and just kinda stuff like that. Just, it just made it a really tumultuous time for everyone. And there was that first semester law schools were canceling grades and there was a huge just wave of pressure for some of the law schools that were keeping grades because in the U S grades are just the end all be all when it comes to being competitive for jobs.

[00:59:59] And so [01:00:00] there was a lot of back and forth about that. So it was really nuts and I know that it was tough. It was tough on my students, for sure. And, now hearing them talk, it's just back to normal stress. It's like the normal stresses of law school, which are incredibly insane and high pressured.

[01:00:17] But at the very least they're able to see their professors they're able to interact with classmates. I even had a student this week say they were going to ask somebody to a coffee, which nobody has done in two years. 

[01:00:30] And so that is finally starting to come back. So, yeah, it was a really rough time. And, I think the law schools did the best they could with it. But not, everything worked out perfectly. And then not specifically with COVID, but what wound up happening with law school admissions in the U.S. is that people differed. And so this cycle was incredibly competitive. And so it was something I think it had to do with the LSAT going online. There's different variation, the L set flex. And then there were also a lot of people heading back into [01:01:00] school because the economy was down and things like that.

[01:01:02] And so it was something like the highest score on an LSAT is a 180. And so 175 to 180 had gone up like a hundred percent, 170 to 175 had gone up something like 60%. So people were getting these insane LSAT scores and having these incredible applications and just getting wait-listed everywhere or denied, or just no response back.

[01:01:20] So this application cycle was really crazy which was inevitably an offshoot of COVID. And so now everybody's watching and waiting to see what the next cycle is going to be like, because a lot of those people deferred a year, so anyway, a lot of upheaval in the law school industry, for sure.

[01:01:38] But I'm just so proud of my students and, just their resilience and taking it a day at a time. And the ones that I'm able to coach on a more one-on-one basis, just taking it week by week and making small steps in progress. And that's all you can really do whether there's a global pandemic or even if it's just a normal law school season, it is a tough road, especially that first [01:02:00] year.

[01:02:00] Lara Quie: It sounds like having you there and with all the advice that you offer, the virtual support through your YouTube channel and the individual coaching, and your course has been really helpful for law school students. And so I'm sure they're so grateful for you, Angela. So tell everyone where they can find you and the name of your channel.

[01:02:23] Angela Vorpahl: Yeah. So on YouTube, it's just Youtube.com backslash /AngelaVorpahl and that's where all my YouTube videos live. And then in terms of finding me on social media, I'm most active on Instagram @AngelaVorpahl. And then of course, you can also find the professional side of me on LinkedIn.

[01:02:41] So, a little bit all over. But if you check out a video and you leave a comment, I am all over those. I love hearing from people and I love giving my thoughts back. So no question is too random to solicit a response. 

[01:02:56] Lara Quie: Thank you so much for your time and your insights today, Angela.[01:03:00] 

[01:03:00] Angela Vorpahl: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure.

[01:03:04] Lara Quie: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Legal Genie Podcast. If you found the content at all valuable, please leave a rating and review on Apple podcasts. It helps other people in the legal industry find the show. And don't forget to share this with anyone you think would benefit from listening to it as well. Until next time, have a magical week ahead.